Cecil Walker frames

[BeerBikeBeer]

Purchased what I suspect (hope) is a 72 Cecile Walker Frame, wondering if anyone has any leads for history of these frames, dates, years, serial numbers or even pictures.

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https://ibb.co/4fLkPCF
Seat stay.

https://ibb.co/zJxcYJs
Bottom bracket

https://ibb.co/0ttPxr2
Gear bracket

https://ibb.co/ZBmNH0k
Rear end

https://ibb.co/hDWQHGT
Seat tube facing forward

https://ibb.co/QdZ93Zk
Serial numbers on frame and forks

https://ibb.co/Z6Q0twf
Frame

Cheers.

[familyguy]

Try the website. I believe they have records of serial numbers. I recently enquired about one, but the record keeper was on leave till mid-May.

https://www.cecilwalker.com.au/contact-us/

[nemo57]

May be worth asking them, but in my recent enquiry about my '76 CW track bike the bloke in the shop reckoned they didn't have sales records going that far back.

If you can post pix of the frame, especially inside the seat tube to show the opening to the top tube, and maybe a good square-on shot of the seat stay brake bridge from behind, and any other shots of the internals - say of the bottom bracket, there are a few guys around who will be able to tell you if it was made by George McDonald, who made many many frames for different shops around Melbourne in that era. Or they may know who else it could have been.

[GaryF]

I reckon your frame is from around 1980. Under the bottom bracket gear cable routing seemed to be adopted around 1980. Rarely did you see frames with under cable routing prior to 1980 and many frame builders still used over bottom bracket cable routing in 1981. I think the cable routing is the key to identifying it's approximate build date as it has a reasonably accurate starting point within this general era. The lugs do look to be from an earlier era but they may have been just lying around the workshop and the original owner may have thought they would have looked nice on his new frame???

I recall, in the 1990's, lusting after a newly built frame in the new CW shop in Elizabeth Street. This frame was built with old Nervex lugs and it looked very good. I wanted it but, from memory, it cost around $1000 and beyond my means. Asking about it and the lugs, I was told that they were just lying around and it was time to build them into a frame. I liked to go into their shop when I visited 'the city' as they always seemed to unearth some special component gem they had stored away in their storeroom and have it on sale.

Other than that, I found Cecil Walker bike shop in the 1980's/90's really accomodating as to your frame building requirements.

[P!N20]

Just wondering why you think it’s a Cecil Walker?

[nemo57]

Different lugs, but otherwise look familiar?

I'm no expert, but that treatment of the seat stays/top tube is just the same as my '76 Hillman:

That was the detail that Gordon Hill regarded as confirming it to be a Geo. McDonald-built frame.

[P!N20]

Serial number placement and format is consistent with Hillman too.

[nemo57]

That's true. So, BBB, you could ask Gordon Hill directly: he has details of most, if not all, handmade Hillman frames.
https://www.gordonhillbikeframes.com/

[feelthewheel]

That's true. So, BBB, you could ask Gordon Hill directly: he has details of most, if not all, handmade Hillman frames.
https://www.gordonhillbikeframes.com/

I can confirm that the Hillman family does indeed have the original build book. Unfortunately for me this meant what I thought was a frame built by George (or Henry) wasn't, but better to know exact provenance. They appreciated being contacted by a collector who was interested in a bicycle's genuine history rather than someone just asking 'what's it worth' (for all the flippers out there).

The search for a nice old Hillman continues ...

[nemo57]

I don't believe that Henry built frames, but he sure could build wheels! Gordon started building frames in his later 20s - so second half of the 70s - was taught by George McDonald how to do it. From what Gordon's told me brothers Barry and Alan, though working in the business, weren't involved in tech aspects of building or keeping bikes running.

[Imwit]

I think Daryl Perkins also built for both Cecil Walker and Hillman in the 70's at least.
There is a great interview with Daryl that I thought was by Gavin Bannerman but I can't find it right now. (there are others with Peter Bundy and Ewan Gellie etc on Vimeo).

Just out of interest, does anyone know who was building for Cecil Walker in the 2000's? My mum has a custom built Cecil from around then and I always wondered who built it.

[nemo57]

Just out of interest, does anyone know who was building for Cecil Walker in the 2000's? My mum has a custom built Cecil from around then and I always wondered who built it.

Not sure of dates but I know that Kevin Wigham did build for Cecil Walker as well as his own brands.

[Imwit]

Cheers.

[feelthewheel]

Just out of interest, does anyone know who was building for Cecil Walker in the 2000's? My mum has a custom built Cecil from around then and I always wondered who built it.

Not sure of dates but I know that Kevin Wigham did build for Cecil Walker as well as his own brands.

You can often tell if Kevin made a Cecil Walker frame as he often used to braze the top of a cut-off steel nail as the chain-rest. He also did this for his Paconi frames. I've got one tucked in the storage somewhere, will try and dig it out.

[ksubi85]

Different lugs, but otherwise look familiar?

I'm no expert, but that treatment of the seat stays/top tube is just the same as my '76 Hillman:

That was the detail that Gordon Hill regarded as confirming it to be a Geo. McDonald-built frame.

I have the same Bike. It still has its stickers although very chipped paint. They came in A pale green and pink. I thought it was 1980.

[CmdrBiggles]

Ah, so! A ride down memory lane!
Same stay/seat tube junction treatment as my 1984 Cecil Walker SuperTour roadie (ridden for Audax Australia Melbourne to Mildura and return, then in 1986, Bendigo Double Century (100m/160km/320km RTN). The bike was designed by a German, Wilf Erben who lived close by me and whose wife Anna introduced me to bicycle touring in late 1977. The most outstanding feature of the bike's design was that it was 2 sizes too big for me!! Never ask a person of short stature to design a bike for a more-abouts 6ft-er...

The chamfered treatment of the tube was embossed with CW and painted gold (not a very good sole surviving photo, below). Rest of frame had very fine, ornate red/grey/gold scrollwork and roman lettering (my name). DuraAce front, rear derailleurs and crank arms were given red or red/black paint infill.

It is believed the frame was painted at the Bates workshop, like so many Hillman frames were also, but you wouldn't get the two shops (Cecils and Hillmans) seeing eye-to-eye about who-did-what-where-and-when!
It was rivalry on a grand scale — ridiculous really, and either/both shops wanted me to eavesdrop on what the other was doing in terms of products available! Shame I never got paid for the espionage, but I did get lots of discounts by keeping my mouth shut!!



• Cecil Walker SuperTour, pictured at sister's home in Leopold (SE of Geelong), October 1984,
conclusion of riding from home in North Melbourne to Leopold (and getting lost around Little River!)

EDIT: Viewers may note this roadie has mudguards. At that time, these were a requirement for long distance AUDAX rides here in Australia; I do not know if that regulation still holds. Lights were also required, with the lights on this bike a Sanyo DynaPower, bottom-bracket/chainstay junction mount, with jury-rigged halogen front and rear lights that belted the stuffing out of the feeble output of the Dynapower. Computer was a Cateye CC2000 Solar, replacing an earlier Pacer 2000 (pic below).



...And the rider hi'self, afternoon of the day prior to departure with AUDAX Aus. riding from Watsonia Army Barracks to Mildura and return. Bike was sold off in September 1987 after I returned to bicycle touring full-time with what was then Hillman Cycles first MTB to be seen in Melbourne — A Hillman Sherpa, painted royal blue, with gold and red bling (again!).

image upload site online

[CmdrBiggles]

Just out of interest, does anyone know who was building for Cecil Walker in the 2000's? My mum has a custom built Cecil from around then and I always wondered who built it.

Not sure of dates but I know that Kevin Wigham did build for Cecil Walker as well as his own brands.

You can often tell if Kevin made a Cecil Walker frame as he often used to braze the top of a cut-off steel nail as the chain-rest. He also did this for his Paconi frames. I've got one tucked in the storage somewhere, will try and dig it out.

Yes, my '84 roadie had that particular feature (photo in post above)!
I never used the lug because I was afraid the chain would scratch it!!

There is a common misconception that Maurie at CW built the frames. This is not true.
Maurie's expertise was wheelbuilding, and they were damn good bikes with a pedigree in legions of tourers, track and road bikes. Frames — custom builds or paint-ups though were contracted out.