Running to improve Cycling

[vikramranna]

Hi All,

Been on the health journey for about a year which has helped me loose 12Kg. Feel a lot healthier and energetic. Note I am in my mid 30's and am not trying to be a professional cyclist.

Initially started with running and picked up cycling about 8 months ago and have fallen in love with it. Currently my health schedule includes running an average of 20kms per week (run 2 to 3 times a week), cycling about 130km per week (2 rides per week, a short 40 km during the week and a long one on weekend) and 2 to 3 times at the gym (a PT session to keep me on track).

My cycling has improved since my initial days and currently avg about 24 km/hr while trying to maintain an avg cadence of around 72. As a personnel goal I am aiming to do the Scody 3 peaks challenge in 2015 and hope to finish it under the 10hr mark (I do realise this is a big ask for an amateur like me. The longest rides that I can do is upto about 90km and generally stick to riding on the M7 track.

I was wondering if I could get advice from other cyclists to help me improve my cycling so that I can aim towards achieving my goal of completing the 3 Peaks challenge

1. Will running improve my cycling.
2. What type of excercise's should I focus in the gym to help improve.
3. Suggestions around improving my avg speed
4. Suggestions on hill climbing improvement techniques.

Unfortunately as my speed is not that high I don't ride with any groups as I know that I would be left in the back and want to join group rides when I know that I can keep up with the rest.

Any suggestions to help improve myself will be great.

Regards,
Vikram

[dalai47]

Curios why you limit yourself to a candence of 72?

[vikramranna]

I don't limit my cadence to 72 but it's just the avg for the ride. I have improved since the initial days if avg 66. I am still working on it and hopefully overtime I continue to improve.

[g-boaf]

Low cadence, if you keep it low - you'll just burn your legs up.

There are reasons you'd use low cadence specifically, just as there are reasons you'd use high cadence of more than 100rpm.

You'd do well to join group rides that are a bit faster than you are - you'll have motivation there to try and match the speed of the others. Eventually you'll get quicker.

There is no other way to get better at hills than to ride them a lot. Just do repeats of them - it eventually gets easier. You might alternate between standing and being seated - and don't forget about your breathing.

[vikramranna]

To improve my cadence I will have to go to easier gears which in turn lowers my speed. So should I be focussing on increasing my cadence and compromise speed and hope that eventually over time both my cadence and speed has improved.

Also what cadence is considered good? If I read on the net then they say to aim around the 90 to 100 mark.

[Le Mong]

You will be surprised how quick you will increase your cadence if you focus on it. I was able to get to a point I can comfortably spin 120 and push to 145 fairly easy by just focusing on your technique and gear selection.

[g-boaf]

Le Mong is right. I reckon you'd manage it and keep the same speed.

90-100rpm is fairly reasonable.

[RonK]

To improve my cadence I will have to go to easier gears which in turn lowers my speed. So should I be focussing on increasing my cadence and compromise speed and hope that eventually over time both my cadence and speed has improved.

Also what cadence is considered good? If I read on the net then they say to aim around the 90 to 100 mark.

Nope, the idea is to increase cadence without losing speed. To do this you'll have to increase your aerobic capacity, which will take time and effort. To start, change down a gear and maintain the same speed. I guarantee it won't be "easier".

Aim for an average cadence of 90 rpm.

[Davo_Grayvo]

HI

I can't comment much on your question about running but having done the 3 Peaks in 2010 I can say that if you want to do it in under 10hrs you'd want to start increasing your ride length and start climbing hills pretty soon. I had been riding for over 2yrs by this stage in 2009, doing approx 300k's/12hrs a week with hills atleast once a week and quite often twice. Obviously this increased leading up to 3 Peaks and I finished in a leasurely 11hrs.

I'm not sure where you live but other than increasing your cadence on normal rides I would start hitting the hills. If you don't live near any big hills do hill repeats on smaller hills that take between 5-10mins and ride it with a low cadence of about 60rpm to build strength. Do this atleast once a week and then after a few months increase to twice a week. When you get closer to 3Peaks start adding in some climbing intervals which are done with a cadence of over 100pm and really smash yourself...this should help increase your lactic threshold.

I'm in a similar position this year having been off my bike for over 12mths i'm hoping to do the 3Peaks next year too.

Good luck...it hurts.

Dave

[Bah77]

1. Will running improve my cycling.

I doubt it, when i started cycling, running had given me a decent fitness base so my first rides were 20km or so... but beyond that cycling more has helped me cycle more.

That said as cycling is "non-load bearing" it doesn't have the advantages (and disadvantages?) that running has in this respect. ( for example http://www.livestrong.com/article/26423 ... -exercise/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

[marty_one]

1. Will running improve my cycling.

I doubt it, when i started cycling, running had given me a decent fitness base so my first rides were 20km or so... but beyond that cycling more has helped me cycle more.

That said as cycling is "non-load bearing" it doesn't have the advantages (and disadvantages?) that running has in this respect.

Well, from my own experience I found that running didn't improve my cycling. What running and cycling did for me is they compliment each other. I think this is because running and cycling use leg muscles in different ways. Definitely keep the running up as it really helps with the cardio side of things. Like other have said, cycling improves cycling.

To improve your cycling, basically to make it a really training ride and ramp up the effort for some sections of your ride (IE: if you have a flat 2km stretch, instead of sitting at your average cadence, stay in the same gear and push it up to 80 or 90 rpm, if thats too easy change gears and get the cadence up).

[vikramranna]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, will certainly start taking those into consideration and changy my training accordingly.

Davo_Grayvo: I live around Prestons (near Liverpool) in NSW. There are quite a few hills around where i live and if i need real big ones then within driving distance i ahve Razorback moountain, Blue montains and the Royal National Park. I guess i ahve stayed away from big hills to improve my basic cycling techniques.

[jimsheedy]

cycling will improve your cycling. Thats it.

[g-boaf]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, will certainly start taking those into consideration and change my training accordingly.

Davo_Grayvo: I live around Prestons (near Liverpool) in NSW. There are quite a few hills around where i live and if i need real big ones then within driving distance i have Razorback mountain, Blue mountains and the Royal National Park. I guess i have stayed away from big hills to improve my basic cycling techniques.

You can certainly just do laps of the twin hills up to Elizabeth Drive and back, or even just do the Hoxton Park Road to M7 service centre and return laps.

[casual_cyclist]

cycling will improve your cycling. Thats it.

Not really. Quality cycling training will improve your cycling. Years ago I did thousands of junk kilometres a year and ended up being a very average cyclist. Basically I rode long distances slowly (av speed under 20km/h) and all I got good at was riding long distances really slowly. If you want to improve, ride smarter not further.

[casual_cyclist]

1. Will running improve my cycling.

I didn't find that running improved my cycling

2. What type of excercise's should I focus in the gym to help improve.

I'm not sure that working out will help your cycling too much unless you have a weak core and do a core workout like this: http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutri ... tness/core" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is an article about a cycling specific workout: http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutri ... rkout-ever" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3. Suggestions around improving my avg speed

The best thing I found was interval training. http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutri ... -endurance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutri ... t-fast-now" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Second best was riding with a group faster than me.

4. Suggestions on hill climbing improvement techniques.

Form, posture, breathing. If it is a short hill, blast up out of the saddle. If it is a long hill, sit and spin. Posture is vital because if you ride hunched over then you won't breathe properly.

You want to adopt an upright position so you can get enough oxygen into your lungs. Don’t hunch up or put your face near the handlebars when it gets hard! You should breathe from your abdomen and keep as relaxed as possible at all times.

http://easycycling.com/how-to-climb-a-h ... bike-fast/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are pictures of better posture here: http://thedailygrind.robdamanii.com/201 ... r-success/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The best thing I found for breathing was yoga.

[g-boaf]

cycling will improve your cycling. Thats it.

Not really. Quality cycling training will improve your cycling. Years ago I did thousands of junk kilometres a year and ended up being a very average cyclist. Basically I rode long distances slowly (av speed under 20km/h) and all I got good at was riding long distances really slowly. If you want to improve, ride smarter not further.

I really did feel best when I'd ride as quickly as possible over 1km distances and repeat that over and over. That helped improve speed a lot. It is hard work though.

[Parker]

Improve cadence by spending a month in the little ring

[vikramranna]

Thanks guys for more suggestions.

I have just started doing spin classes at my local gym and aim to do atleast one session a week. I guess the HIIT will help me with improving my endurance for longer rides.

[mtb1011]

vikramranna hopefully you're getting some good tips on here.

running - if you are a runner then it will certainly improve your cycling particularly in 2 areas 1. cardio/aerobic and 2 dropping & maintaining weight. In fact there's no simpler way to get a fantastic cardio workout than to run. many times climbing Mt Hotham or Falls you're climbing at threshold (heart rate) and if you have running fitness under your belt it will be an asset in being able to hold the climb at a desired climbing rate. If you've ever done a half or full marathon you'll know what I mean, there's nothing tougher in terms of cardio and leg pain experienced in a half/42k and that's similar to what you experience on a climb with lots of ks like the 3 peaks. then there's the mental preparation and again running is a good way of simulating that.

3 Peaks; well a few things to say about this, you're looking at 4000 metres climbing/230+ ks, forget sub-10 hours, its a brutal amount of climbing for a new rider to contend with - so many things can go wrong, with only time as your focus .... well you might make it to Dinner Plain as Mt Hotham will put you into debt chasing a sub-10hr time. my advice would be to not focus on the time rather finishing with your mental state in tact.

I would also recommend doing the Audax Alpine 200K as a warm up event and to see how punishing an event with heaps of climbing can be.

cadence yes spin to win here, so if you're grinding along at 70, that's no good and bad technique. Need to be around 80-90.

average speed????, what's more important is your Watts/Kgs and the only way you can find that out is to buy a power meter, you'll then see where you make optimal power and this is what's needed to get through a 3 Peaks, its about sustainable power outputs over the period of the event.

you need to do interval type riding through the week with a good intensity and longer easier rides with some good climbing on weekends. don't know your area but what you need is a 10-20 k climb with an average of say 5% + to prepare you for your journey.

[vikramranna]

Hi mtb1011,

Thanks for your suggestions. I have been getting some very useful tips from other riders in the forum which I have started to
Incorporate into my training.

My current training plan is as follows
1. 2 rides a week of 30km each while trying to maintain a cadence if 90 to 100.
2. 1 weekly run if 10km just to improve my aerobic fitness.
3. 3 sessions at the gym weekly to focus on core and leg strength
4. 1 spinn class in the gym for HIIT
5. 1 to 2 long rides on the weekend. Initially start from 75km and increase the distance and aim to have atlleast 10 to 15% of the total distance of hill climb.

There are quite a few hills around where I live so should not be a problem.

Vikram

[Manu3172]

1. Will running improve my cycling.

I doubt it, when i started cycling, running had given me a decent fitness base so my first rides were 20km or so... but beyond that cycling more has helped me cycle more.

That said as cycling is "non-load bearing" it doesn't have the advantages (and disadvantages?) that running has in this respect. ( for example http://www.livestrong.com/article/26423 ... -exercise/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )

From my own experience, running improves a lot cycling (at least long-distance running):
- This year I ran a lot, but did not use my bike at all. On my second cycling day of the year, I beat my personal record on plateau de Beille climb.
- I have a friend that never rides but is a very good runner. He started training on his bike a month ago and he is now very strong.

[Xplora]

If your goal is 3 Peaks and you live around Prestons, you will benefit from doing hill repeats of Elizabeth Drive on the M7.

I have found squats and stepups to be enormously helpful in my early stages of my training cycle. I've been hitting very very very strong personal bests for my power. It's actually insane how much more powerful I've gotten. That said - my cardio has gone to hell. You shouldn't need that much gym work after 3 months, I've almost completed my weights cycle and it's been 8 weeks. I'll be down to 1-2 a week after that.

I wouldn't bother with the running, or the 30km rides spinning. You will develop better spin technique by doing 100-120rpm on the way to the hills on the M7 then grinding up the hill in whatever gear your legs allow. Ride up them fast. Rest rolling back towards Prestons. Bam another one.

Work towards a ride to Bella Vista and back, then back up to the bubbler. 120kms, 1000m climbing. Not bad. Learn to love the M7 if you want to do 3 Peaks.

[leximack]

sadly riding any of the "hills" on the m7 will not prepare you in anyway for the 3 peaks (unless you can ride the m7 full loop 4 times and feel awesome after you have finished). Nothing more than about 6% on the m7 and for only a few hundred metres.
3 Peaks has 30km climbs averaging 8-10% and i think about 5000m climbing all up.
You need to get out and do some serious rides, 150-200km rides with atleast 2000-2500m climbing (minimum).
Good ride from where you are is to head to the m4, ride towards penrith, do lapstone hill, glenbrook causeway, old bathurst rd, hawkesbury lookout, then head over to richmond and do bowen mtn and bellbird hill. Approx 160-200km (cant remember exactly) with about 2500-3000m climbing i think. This is still nowhere near as hard as 3 Peaks. When you can do this ride and still be alive afterwards your on your way to riding 3 peaks.
Basically you need to get your body used to riding long distance and with lots and lots of climbing, you cant do this without doing long rides with lots of climbing. Theres no shortcut, you need to put in the effort.

I am hoping to do 3 peaks next year also

Good luck

Don

[vikramranna]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.